Game Theory: The Secret Identity of Hollow Knight's Hero (Hollow Knight)

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  • The Game Theorists
    The Game Theorists   3 months back

    The below comment is from the channel Sumwan who did an incredible job critiquing this episode. Unfortunately, the comment got lost (YouTube has an algorithm that is constantly "turning over" comments on high-view videos) and despite digging around for hours looking for it, I couldn't find the original. But the work that she put in was SO thorough that I wanted to make sure it got seen, so here it is!

    ***Original Text from Sumwan***
    I've seen this claim many times and it really does not make any sense. Not only does it contradict evidence in the game but it is very misleading. I'll go through the points one by one and explain why:

    6:35 “We too might be in the ranks of a higher being”

    The Knight is the child of the Pale King and the White Lady, who are both higher beings. It makes sense that the Knight is able to read these higher being tablets. This doesn't mean that the Pale King IS the Knight.

    7:20 “Does it really sound like we're just some failed experiment cast into the depths of this world?”

    No, it doesn't sound like that. The Vessels are the children of the Pale King and the White Lady who are born from eggs in the Abyss, which gave them a Shade. The Vessels are not just “failed experiments”.

    8:12 “This poem is addressed to the Pale King”

    It literally says “elegy for HALLOWNEST”. This poem is about Hallownest. “Under palest watch” refers to the Pale King, but the “you”, is most definitely Hallownest.

    8:30 “In the beginning of the game's lore, all bugs were basically a hive mind controlled by the moth god Radiance”

    This information is not supported by anything. Only the Radiance's descendants, the moth tribe, worshipped her. Nowhere is it stated that the Radiance controlled everything else. The Mantis Tribe, the Mosskin, Deepnest, and the Hive were all separate tribes and already had minds before the Pale King.

    8:51 “This isn't just a poem about the Pale King, it is directed TO the Pale King”

    It is about Hallownest and it is direct to Hallownest (elegy for Hallownest).

    8:55 “What do we see appear on screen just moments later? Our Knight”

    After the poem we see THE HOLLOW KNIGHT, not the Knight. The Knight scene appears after we see the Radiance break out of the Hollow Knight. Team Cherry is NOT drawing a parallel between the Knight and the Pale King. The poem is about Hallownest. It is FOR Hallownest. And the scene with the Knight does not appear right after the poem.

    10:27 “Elderbug says we are seeking our dreams in perhaps a very literal sense.”

    The context of this sentence matters. Elderbug is talking about how all the previous travellers went down into Hallownest to follow their dreams. He does not actually know if the Knight has any “dreams” themselves.

    11:00 “Elderbug wondering if he's seen a ghost is another potentially clever play on words”

    No it's not. Elderbug is just referring to how he thought maybe he didn't see anyone pass him because the Knight left so quickly. This dialogue has no other meaning besides that.

    11:36 “White Lady: Is it more than simply a Vessel? I almost feel like I'm once again in the presence of my beloved Wyrm”

    The White Lady only says this because the Knight is wearing the Kingsoul. The Kingsoul reminds her of the Pale King, not the Knight themselves. Also, the White Lady literally calls the Knight her spawn when they visit her with Grimmchild equipped: “Success then for the scarlet heart, and irony, to use my spawn to grow its own.” Are you saying that the White Lady gave birth to her own husband?

    11:46 “Your noble bearing reminds me of our dear King”

    No surprise there since the Knight is the child of the Pale King.

    12:05 “The bugs in White Palace bowing as you approach them is just screaming that you're the king”

    White Palace is a whole other issue, but this is really not concrete evidence. Also their dream nail dialogue makes no sense if it refers to the Knight.

    12:19 “10/10 Royal Retainers can't be wrong. You are royalty”

    You're actually right there. The Knight IS royalty, since they're the child of the King. Not because they ARE the King.

    13:28 “This line of “more transformation” seems to imply that the Pale King's death would only lead to yet another form”

    Not really. Bardoon says that the Pale King's death in Kingdom's Edge was not an actual death, but that it was more like a transformation. This does not mean that the Pale King can transform again after he became his bug shape. A caterpillar transforming into a butterfly also cannot transform into another being again.

    13:49 “It's an ancient force that opposes the blinding light of [the Radiance]”

    Not just the Radiance's light, but the Pale King's too. He is referred to as a light in multiple places:

    The Seer:
    “But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.”

    The Pale King calls himself a light in the throne room lore tablet:
    “No blazing kin. Only one light shall shine against the dark.”

    As does the Teacher’s Archives lore tablet:
    “-KINGLIGHT-EM-GROWTH-INKIND-FLOW-ALLTHINK-ENFIELD”

    Other bugs talk about the Pale King emanating light:
    “Though even its pure aura is no match for the light of our dear King.” (Eternal Emilitia)
    “I've heard he was a glorious bug to behold, bright and radiant in visage, so much so it hurt to look at him.” (Last/Old Stag)
    “That lingering power alone was beacon enough to draw Us to Hallownest. How bright it must have been to mortal bug stood before it.” (Godseeker)

    14:45 “The Pale King used Void to fight time itself. He wants to use the Void to attain eternal life. He births himself as a Void-based creature”

    Not literally time. Time here is capitalized, and it is more likely to just refer to the Radiance. Locking up the Radiance is generally seen as being what has caused the Kingdom to remain in a stasis:
    “Bear witness to the last and only civilisation, the eternal Kingdom. Hallownest””
    “Eternity in promise and charge in progeny cursed.”
    “Now this Kingdom's stasis becomes the Wyrm's legacy.”
    “Though this hive exists within Hallownest, we play no part in its attempt at perpetuation.”

    It is not literally time. He is a higher being, he does not need to use the Void to “achieve eternal life”. Not to mention that the Void opposes his own powers too (see previous point).

    15:25 “It seems to suggest that this egg [in White Palace] is where version 1.0 of the Pale King hatched into its upgraded form”

    It does not. The Pale King became his current bug form in the Cast-Off shell. The Wanderer's Journal even mentions that too on page 111: “Deep within the maw of the [Cast-Off Shell], a pale, broken egg of some sort hints at such a rebirth.” Not only that, but the egg of the Knight in the Abyss would be DEADLY for the Pale King. Void opposes his power, it would simply kill him if he were to become corrupted by the Void like the eggs of the Vessels were.

    15:40 “Elsewhere in White Palace there is a nursery playing this song on the music box (shade theme). The sound that accompanies our Knight's past life coincides with the same sound from a nursery housed in the Pale King's palace.”

    Yes, this is true, but not because of the reason you're describing. It's because the Hollow Knight grew up in White Palace (see Path of Pain scene). This nursery was probably for them. And since the Hollow Knight is a Vessel too, it makes sense that the Shade theme place for that area.

    16:21 “The existence of a connection between our Knight and the Pale King seems undeniable”

    Yes, it is undeniable. The Knight is the child of the Pale King.

    18:13 “In cut dialogue that was datamined from the game, it shows that the Hollow Knight says “father”.

    Cut dialogue is not evidence. The "Father?" is cut dream nail dialogue. It was cut for a reason. We don't know when this line was written, in which context it would be used exactly, maybe the Hollow Knight's fight was different at the time, etc.

    19:20 “Losing his memory helps make him purely hollow”

    It does not. Quirrel lost his memory and this does not happen to him. Not to mention that the Knight is not hollow. There are multiple places where the Knight is said to have a will:

    Steel Soul Jinn: "...It refuses to trade...? It has a will... all Its own."
    Void Heart description: "Unifies the void under the bearer's will."
    Description of a pure Vessel: "No will to break."

    Lastly I'm going to address some fundamental problems with this entire theory that you did not address or seem to have forgotten about.

    The most obvious evidence that contradicts that the Pale King is the Knight is that the Knight and the Pale King are both seen at the same time. This is during the Birthplace memory cutscene where the Hollow Knight is led out of the Abyss by the Pale King. This is a memory of the Knight themselves since the Knight dreamnails their own reflection to access this memory. Furthermore, the achievement for acquiring Void Heart also says:

    "Remember the past and unite the Abyss"

    This supports the fact that it is the Knight’s memory. Therefore, the Pale King cannot be the Knight, since they were alive at the same time.

    Secondly, the Knight is the child of the Pale King, not a transformation. The lore tablet to the right of the throne in White Palace says that the Vessels are the progeny of the Pale King, and the Pale King also says that the Vessels are "born of God and Void", the God obviously referring to him and the White Lady who are both higher beings. Since the Knight is the child of the Pale King (and the White Lady), the Pale King cannot BE the Knight.

    None of the points that were brought up align with the evidence that is in the game, and it even contradicts it in various places. To put it quite simply, the Knight is NOT the Pale King.

    • Nathanator Minecraft
      Nathanator Minecraft  6 days back

      👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank youy someone with sense

    • Hazukichan X
      Hazukichan X  1 weeks back

      I was leaning more in that interpretive direction, as well. The king theory was interesting, but I'm still going to say "son" makes more sense to me. Not sure if it really counts as evidence, but the "bound siblings" ending is essentially the Knight and Hornet trapped in the black egg after destroying the Hollow Knight, yes? So since the Hollow Knight is no longer alive nor bound to his duty/fate, who are the *siblings,*  plural? Hornet and the Knight.

    • The Goober man
      The Goober man  1 weeks back

      The Game Theorists now I need to buy this game

    • Lubble-1397
      Lubble-1397  1 weeks back

      Funny how comments that disagree with you tend to disappear

    • Tina Kennedy
      Tina Kennedy  2 weeks back

      Oh my God there's so many words in these comment it.s ridiculous

  • Manuel Dias
    Manuel Dias  13 hours back

    1:43 im sure that if anyone just peeked a little blink of your eye in the city of tears or lore tablets or much more, they wouldn,t even raise an eyebrow

    • פלג קיסלסי
      פלג קיסלסי  17 hours back

      What is the name of the intro song?

      • Kai
        Kai  17 hours back

        Como funciona as legendas? É o dono do video que coloca elas pro pessoal entender ou o próprio youtube que faz isso?

        • Turtle Duck
          Turtle Duck  1 days back

          Ok how late am I?




          3 months? That’s the earliest I’ve ever been!

          • Robin Mandrup
            Robin Mandrup  1 days back

            This game looks truly awesome, I just had to buy it

            • Generic Penguin
              Generic Penguin  1 days back

              W R O N G

              • kit katty
                kit katty  1 days back

                Its a theory. Mat Pat has said in the past that his theories are to spark a discussion. Some may be wrong, thats gonna happen. But your comment is not offering anything. No points made. Mat Pats pinned comment has a comment made by someone else that shows points and properly critiques his theory. Calm down and next time maybe consider that it is a THEORY.

            • Lex Quinn
              Lex Quinn  1 days back

              Just like the name confusion with this one the first time I saw a legend of Zelda game I thought links name was Zelda for like 2 years

              • Sir Pufflington
                Sir Pufflington  2 days back

                Except the Pale Lady only says that she feels the presence of his beloved (Pale King) AFTER you get his part of Kings Charm!

                • Jeiss Varghese
                  Jeiss Varghese  2 days back

                  But the knight is the prince of hollowness, that why he gets respect and is recognized by others. Beacuse he is the son of the king and stepsister of hornet.

                  • Gold Griefer Playz
                    Gold Griefer Playz  2 days back

                    The first guy to kill a bug realizing it was the pale king was probably like
                    *insert image*

                    • Zoli Davis
                      Zoli Davis  2 days back

                      damn MatPat spoiler alert

                      • kit katty
                        kit katty  1 days back

                        I hope you are joking because it is a theory and therefore obviously will have spoilers

                    • Jasmeh Singh
                      Jasmeh Singh  2 days back

                      im the 100k liker






                      yay

                      • ꧁Ark Butterfly꧂
                        ꧁Ark Butterfly꧂  3 days back

                        i have this game, and i agree, it
                        is
                        great

                        • Loki_Playz
                          Loki_Playz  3 days back

                          This made me cry

                          • Le Lil gacha
                            Le Lil gacha  4 days back

                            the actual name of the hollow knight is the pure vessel(i think)

                            • A bunch of random Stuff

                              I love hollow knight

                              • Roy Liu
                                Roy Liu  4 days back

                                I think that maybe he's not the king but a sibling or something mebe or not

                                • Darkened Abyss
                                  Darkened Abyss  4 days back

                                  If the knight was the pale king? How did the knight see the pale king alive taking the hollow knight, besides the pale king has a will and if the knight seals the radiance, then it does not have a will ... sorry

                                  • Sampo Perttilä
                                    Sampo Perttilä  5 days back

                                    Rive.

                                    • The Pigasaurus
                                      The Pigasaurus  5 days back

                                      I hate that you gave the Knight arms outside of his cloak so much. It’s like it’s wearing a freaking vest

                                      • Peter parkers ass
                                        Peter parkers ass  5 days back

                                        I know everyone hates this video, but I'm pretty happy because it's the reason I got into HK in the first place

                                        • Nitefurie
                                          Nitefurie  6 days back

                                          According to several things describing how by obtaining the kings brand, you become the new king. Regardless of any form of reincarnation

                                          • Barbara Petrov
                                            Barbara Petrov  7 days back

                                            NONO

                                            • kit katty
                                              kit katty  1 days back

                                              game THEORY. think about that for a sec

                                          • Edwin French
                                            Edwin French  7 days back

                                            Wouldn't it make a bit more scene if the knight was the pale kings second son and when he saw what the pale king did to his brother he ran away into the forest to try and forget. Meanwhile the pale king becomes full of regret and then attempts to manipulate the void to try and use it's power to stop the corruption of his son but the void takes him as sacrifice to fulfill the pale kings wishes and Summoned his second son back to take his rightful place as king and cure his other son's corruption.

                                            • hate anime get sword.
                                              hate anime get sword.  1 weeks back

                                              Mat pat stop just stop

                                              • hate anime get sword.
                                                hate anime get sword.  14 hours back

                                                @kit katty this one's a little too ridiculous. He has a BABY and babies are stressful and theories on top of that that equals super stressful

                                              • kit katty
                                                kit katty  22 hours back

                                                @hate anime get sword. So? Theories get disproven sometimes. What is your point?

                                              • hate anime get sword.
                                                hate anime get sword.  1 days back

                                                @kit kattyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJYmAKF0f4g&t=638s

                                              • kit katty
                                                kit katty  1 days back

                                                Game THEORY. Think about that for a sec.

                                            • Avataaa
                                              Avataaa  1 weeks back

                                              The whole point of the Knight being a higher being is true no matter what because after all he is the “child” of two higher beings(Wirm and Root) corrupted by a third higher “being” (void)

                                              • Jason X5
                                                Jason X5  1 weeks back

                                                Petition to watch MatPat try to beat the Pantheon Of Hallownest (1 like = 1minute)

                                              • Crow The Reaper
                                                Crow The Reaper  1 weeks back

                                                No bug was able to dream until the pale king showed up, so this could be a hint to the knight being the pale king because he is the only one being able to dream as much as he can when he gets the dream nail

                                                • Patti Morton
                                                  Patti Morton  1 weeks back

                                                  MatPat,this new intro for Game Theory is surprisingly awesome. I love it! #gametheory

                                                  • AwakendSpace80
                                                    AwakendSpace80  1 weeks back

                                                    I SAW THE HOLY SAVIOR DIET COKE

                                                    • Cody Bryant
                                                      Cody Bryant  1 weeks back

                                                      Nice socks bro

                                                      • Xytan 'Jar Wattinree
                                                        Xytan 'Jar Wattinree  1 weeks back

                                                        HOW DARE YOU INSULT MY PRECIOUS ARTHROPODS
                                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_-MRc_OyBI&t=7s

                                                        • Michelle Fitzgerald
                                                          Michelle Fitzgerald  1 weeks back

                                                          I have read bigger books

                                                          • ERHER555pl
                                                            ERHER555pl  1 weeks back

                                                            Old nail - regular weapon of Hollownest

                                                            • Ieusbd Wasgu
                                                              Ieusbd Wasgu  1 weeks back

                                                              Tell me why i read it as "game the ory"

                                                              • Zivon
                                                                Zivon  1 weeks back

                                                                After watching mossbag's video on this I'm just wondering why you took so many things out of context, or omitted details just to push your narrative?

                                                                • Zivon
                                                                  Zivon  1 days back

                                                                  @kit katty I think if you're going to propose a theory it has to at least be plausible, which this clearly isn't given all the relevant information you have to dismiss for this theory to work. Also I think my comments are written in a calm manner? I'm not insulting nor cursing so I don't quite get where that's coming from.

                                                                • kit katty
                                                                  kit katty  1 days back

                                                                  Theories are theories. He didnt omit things or take things out of context on purpose; he saw a theory that he, as a FAN, saw. He put things together. Calm yourself.

                                                              • SlashS Games
                                                                SlashS Games  1 weeks back

                                                                If you're going to say "I support science and encourage logical thinking" Atleast try and follow what you say. The most logical and best thing to do when making HK Lore/ theory videos is to consult someone who knows HK lore better than most 1. so you don't get far too much hate and get put on the "born of god and meme" playlist 2. you don't affect those who know little to no lore and end up feeding false information on a videogame.

                                                                • kit katty
                                                                  kit katty  1 days back

                                                                  Wtf dude. He admitted that he played this game so so much. He made a theory. Its not misinformation. Its not destroying new players view of the game. Hes making a theory to show what he thought. What theories do you believe in about other games? Im sure that not all of them are correct. You need to calm yourself.

                                                              • GalaxyDogenut
                                                                GalaxyDogenut  1 weeks back

                                                                Who’s here from mossbag?

                                                                • Riley Swinson
                                                                  Riley Swinson  1 weeks back

                                                                  I was never notified of this video ):

                                                                  • John ManyJars
                                                                    John ManyJars  1 weeks back

                                                                    Also fricken hornet literally said that you were the king

                                                                    • Yeet Yeet
                                                                      Yeet Yeet  1 weeks back

                                                                      Nice intro

                                                                      • Akopack YT
                                                                        Akopack YT  1 weeks back

                                                                        0:27 did anybody notice springtrap?

                                                                        • Ryan Toscano
                                                                          Ryan Toscano  1 weeks back

                                                                          So glad I went back to listen to this. I played the hell out of Hallow Knight for the first time last year. One of the only games I've ever fully completed. I was able to piece some of the story together, but nothing on the level of this video. It adds even more depth to the great game that lives in Hallow Nest.

                                                                          • 4 Requim
                                                                            4 Requim  1 weeks back

                                                                            Wheres daughter of crystal criemheld

                                                                            • Qree Wee
                                                                              Qree Wee  1 weeks back

                                                                              Why was the knight attacking with his hands in the intro?

                                                                              • Squid King
                                                                                Squid King  1 weeks back

                                                                                im gonna ask right now: who uses grubberflys elegy against HK? you lose a lot of hp during that, its only good for the first 1 minute

                                                                                • SpectreICollateral
                                                                                  SpectreICollateral  2 weeks back

                                                                                  On one hand, thanks for bringing exposure to the HK game.
                                                                                  On the other, shame that you did it by having millions of people watch your objectively wrong theory and take it as gospel